tv Hardball Weekend MSNBC June 26, 2011 7:00am-7:30am EDT
>> michelle bachman rides a dinosaur through the entire 6,000 history of the universe. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm ron reaganan in seattle sitting in for chris matthews once more. leading off tonight, the war against the war. from the start americans have been skeptical of u.s. involvement in libya, and today the house threw a pie in the face of president obama, voting overwhelmingly against a measure that would have authorized the
u.s. mission there. 70 democrats desserted the president as well. it's a sign of the growing everts to get muammar qadhafi. michelle bachman, who kicks off her presidential campaign on monday, says when it comes to evolution, the so-called intelligent design or creationism theory, there's a scientific controversy between the two, and both should be taught. let's be clear. there is no controversy at all among scientists over whether humans evolved. none. we'll get into the debate over whether creationism should be taught in schools. also, who says taxes can never be raised? eric cantor and john kyl walked out of budget talks yesterday for one reason. taxes. taxes are at their lowest level in decades. our government is deep in the red, and i happen to be very familiar with one president, at least, who hated taxes, but raised them when he saw it was
necessary. why won't republicans even consider making the wealthy pay a little bet more? and why are some people in the fbi -- could it be the fbi are protected him and are now terrified he'll turn on them? final, as they say dying is easy, comedy is hard. rick perry found out just how hard last night. check out the side show. we begin with libya, though. as he said, the house today rejected a measure with 70 democrats voting no. the house would only go so far. refusing to defund u.s. operations in libya. only 236 democrats voted in favor of that measure. ohio congressman dennis kucinich joins us now from capitol hill. welcome, congressman. sdmroog hi, ron. it's good to be with you. >> good to have you. >> well, sir, why did you and 69 other house democrats break with the president on libya? >> well, first of all, it's not
the president's choice to make. it's up to congress to make the decision whether or not this country declares war. so i have been involved in leading the effort and leading the efforts of the congress assumes its rightful position as a branch of government that our system of checks and balances actually is activated and that the separation of powers and the issue of war that our founders had a clear intention to not just to enact, but to seek reserve pa tha we preserve it. >> as you well know, the u.s. hasn't officially -- congress hasn't officially declared war since world war ii we've fought in many places around the world. what is it about this libyan operation that has people so up in arms? >> well, you know, i -- as i looked at what was happening, where the president unilaterally made a decision to take us into war. you talked to the arab looel league. he talked to nato. he talked to the u.n., and didn't come to the united states
congress ask ask for per permission. i looked at that and said, you know, i talked to other members of congress on both sides of the aisle, and we decided that the constitution does mean something here, that article one, section 8 neats to be enforced and the congress -- our constituents are the ones that are best to serve if there's a war. we're elected. our constituents' lives could be put on the line, and we better have a say on these things. with the potential of expanding wars in pakistan and yemen and sudan and god knows where else, it's time the congress took its responsibility. >> now, you voted against authorizing the action in libya, and i'm assuming that you're one of the democrats who also voted not to fund the operation in libya, and i understand you're going to introduce an amendment to that effect. if all congress is going to do is express displeasure about this without actually pulling the money, are we really just talking about symbolism? >> well, there is a symbolic
dimension. you're correct on that. however, there's nothing symbolic about an amendment which is coming up in two weeks. it's an amendment sponsored by myself and congressman from michigan. that cuts the funds. that is the amendment that would be the defining vote on libya, because once you cut the funds and i think we have a pretty good chance of passing it, and this thing is done. >> qadhafi eights forces were rolling against benghazi, and he was vowing to slaughter them. whatsoever discussion would we be having today if president obama had sat on its hands and allowed that to happen? republicans, i imagine, would be up in arms accusing him of allowing these people to die. >> well, first of all, there was no massacre. that qadhafi was on a rant and
was threatening an insurrection. that calls for analysis and not just reaching for the military response. the fact that we went based on threats as opposed to anything that was definable that actually happened, that's a big problem, because here we reacted in libya based on threats, and, yet, what was going on in yemen, in bahrain, and in other places where there is real harm done to civilians, we didn't do anything. you have to see what is the real deal here in libya? is it about america's interest? i don't know. they don't have any capability of attacking us. the war powers, there has to be a threat to the united states. that's why, ron, it was so important for congress to get involved, to have the administration begin to answer questions, and they've been no
means answered the questions of why are we there and who are we supporting, and what's the end game? we should be joining china and other nation that is are talking about the need for a political solution because there is no military solution in libya. >> well, you're absolutely right. the end game is always the final question here with any sort of war activity. thank you, congressman dennis kucinich. i know you're busy, so i'll let you get back to your work. let's turn now to the huffington post howard fineman. >> what may have been murky to some, but the likelihood was all too real for the president to ignore. that was number one. i think number two in the larger context of the so-called arab spring, i think, there was some sense in the region that if they could topple repressive regimes elsewhere and do it in the name
of humanitarianism, they might as well do it. >> here's the speaker job boehner today on the house floor. have a listen. >> at the outset we have some very straight forward questions of the president. why isn't removing qadhafi part of this mission? what if he doesn't leave? who are the rebels that were there helping to fight? how long is this going to last? at what cost? what does success look like? that are questions that the administration could not and would not answer. >> perfectly reasonable questions, i suppose. do you think that john boehner would be asking those of a president named bush, for instance? >> no. you know, ron, i was just listening to that, and i'm sure all our viewers were doing the same saying why didn't john boehner or virtually any republican ask any of those
questions, which were all the same questions, before we went into iraq? the answers were not supplied, and, indeed, some the answers we still don't have, even though we now still have 48,000 troops left in iraq. so, you know, this is a lot of theater. i hate to be cynical here, but there's a lot of theater ricks here. they did not have the vote to cut off the funds. they probably won't cut off the funds. republicans are log going after the president on libya because they're still wary of going after him on iraq and afghanistan. those are two wars that have their roots in bush years. they would still like to brag about at the time. >> well, i suspect that if muammar qadhafi disappears, in issue will quickly evaporate and
disappear as well. thank you, howard fineman. pleasure to talk to you, as always. coming up, michelle bachman is kicking off her presidential campaign this weekend. she's a big believer in creatism, of course, and she says as long as there's a controversy, intelligent design should be taught along side evolution, but there's no controversy in the scientific world, so why do they get to push their belief on the rest of us? that's ahead. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc.
>> welcome back to "hardball." michelle bachman is expected to announce she's running for president, but here she is in 2006 talking about evolution. >> there is a controversy among scientists about whether evolution is a fact or not. i've reached the fact that evolution are a fact. there are hundreds and hundreds of scientists. many of them winning nobel prize who's believe in intelligent design. >> and just last week after speaking at the republican leadership conference, she said this. "i support intelligent design. what i support is putting all the science on the table and then letting students decide. i don't think it's a good idea for government to come down on one side of a scientific issue or another. when there is reasonable doubt on both sides." the science on evolution, in
case you were wondering is unequivocal. when republicans deny scientific evidence on this and leak global warming, shouldn't they be called out? bob shrumm is a democratic strategist, and david corn is from "mother jones" magazine and an msnbc contributor. welcome to you both, gentlemen. bob, let me start with you. how disturbed should we be that a presidential candidate is talking nonsense? >> well, look, it's an indication of how far to the right the republican party has moved. this is flat earth ideology. believe what you want and the facts be damned along with all of us nonfundamentalists. when i was growing up and i was taught in catholic schools but there was nothing nothing inconsistent between evolution and belief in god. still, you know, god could use the evolutionary process in creation. still, that was a matter of faith. that wasn't something you were taught as a fact. you could be taught in catholic schools, but want must be schools.
michelle bachman and people like her and people who like her have a different mission. they want to vindicate the idea in the bible that the world was created in seven literal days a few thousand year ago. most biblical scholars think that is nonsense, and they ignore all the geological evidence. you know, it reminds me during the scopes trying in tennessee in the 1920s when that state outlawed the teaching of evolution. williams bennett bryant was testifying for and was representing the state and was put on the stand by clarence darrell, and he was asked the fact that the rocks that darr l darrell -- francly i am more interested in the rock of ages than the age of rocks. that's what's going on here. you have that kind of thing going on in the republican party and those people taking over. >> let me repeat something michelle bachman says here. she says there's a controversy among scientists about whether
evolution is fact. hundreds and hundreds of scientists, she says, many of them holding nobel prizes, believe in intelligent design. none of that is true. is she just iing flornt or deliberately misleading people? >> that's a really good question, and i think you would have to have her on the show and probe her. i'm shocked that you are shocked. not only does she go on about -- >> i'm not really shocked. i'm just outraged. >> well, fine. i'll grant you that. you know, in addition to this, you mentioned that she believes global warming is a hoax. she has said also in the past that almost all gays and lesbians have been abused as children. that's why they're homosexual. she has said that the founding fathers worked tirelessly to end slavery, when that wasn't true. they kicked the can down the road. i mean, it seems that either ignorance or historical revisionism is really her stock and trade.
now, that's obviously for part zan appeal. it may actually be what she believes, which would indicate a certain attachment from reality and perhaps the scary thing is that such detachment has gotten her pretty far in politics and may serve her very well in places like iowa. >> indeed. bob, here's what really disturbs me about this. i than some people's eyes glaze over when you talk about evolution, but it seems to exist this kind of position seems to exist on a continueum for me. you deny evolution and global warming. then you are talking about birtherism, and then you are claiming when you cut taxes, you actually raise revenues. it's this sort of, you know, disdain for reality that disturbs me, i guess. >> well, ron, i think that's absolutely right. it's a flat earth ideology that goes across the board. on economics right now you're seeing boehner and company try to argue that the way to help a faltering economy is to take demand out of it so that people buy less, companies produce
less, and employers fire fewer workers. the interesting thing, if you look at romney and huntsman, they're deeply suspect in the republican party because they refuse to deny the client and the science of climate change, even though, of course, they don't want to do anything about it. they're trying on split the difference to satisfy the base. it would be terrifying, i think, for someone for us and for the world for someone like michelle bachman ever to become president of the united states. i suspect that secretly in the white house they might actually be rooting for her to be the republican nominee. maybe even not so secretly. >> yes, indeed. someone had a conversation, and they got talking about global warming, and the american asked the chinese diplomat, are you having this argument in china about global warming? he just sort of laugh and shook his head. he said, you know, our leadership comes from science and engineering mostly, so no, we're not having that conversation. we never really had that conversation because they understand science.
>> bob made an important point a moment ago. the scientific debate in global warming is over, and, in fact, it was even acknowledged by the bush administration, george w. bush. he ended up coming up with a voluntarily system that really addressed the issue, but he and everyone worked for him said it's real. people who -- sarah palin used to say it was real. you have pawlenty and mitt romney who both took actions as governors that said it was real. we now live in this sort of fact-free political media environment where people can get away with just denying things and say, hey, there are two sides to every issue. what she said about creatism. there's a scientific debate. on one side there are three scientists, and the other side there are three million scientists. let's have a debate. >> yeah. exactly. >> i was going to ask bob if he thinks that it is useful and, well, fair and certainly useful
to question presidential candidates about issues like evolution to find out their mindset about this. >> you don't have to question michelle bachmann for her. this is for her appointed of the lands. she is appealing to the religious right in iowa. her whole strategy is to launch herself there, survive in new hampshire, get to south carolina, and do the same thing. i think the viewpoint is very distinctly a minority one in america. she might just take off, and if the republican party completely loses its head, they might nominate her. sure, we should question her. she'll be eager to give her answers. her answers will be entirely fact-free. >> for me this is not about religious belief at all. can you believe that the world is a lump of cheese riding on the back of a giant turtle for all i care. may the great turtle bless you. you know, shoving it into science classes, just that crosses the line for me. we're going to have to leave it here. i'm sorry, guys. it's been a pleasure talking to both of you.
thank you, bob. >> thank you. >> and david. >> thanks, ron. >> you bet. up next, texas governor rick perry is still thinking about running for president, but his awkward jokes didn't make any friends in the latino community last night. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. just how much natural gas was trapped in rocks thousands of feet below us. technology has made it possible to safely unlock this cleanly burning natural gas. this deposits can provide us with fuel for a hundred years, providing energy security and economic growth all across this country. it just takes somebody having the idea, and that's where the discovery comes from. new newtons fruit thins. real blueberries and blueberry brown sugar... crispy whole grain. newtons fruit thins, one unique cookie.
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what is this? it's the cut cap balance and pledge. is that right? do you know it? zi liked it, signed it. zoo signed it? >> i could kiss any the mouth. >> in the mouth? what does that even mean? eww. next up, talk about a buzz kill. last night at a latino event presidential hopeful rick perry ride his best to woo the hispanic vote. awkward jokes like this one about tequila didn't help his cause. >> the young hispanics in texas can aspire to be the next rwandao paub los, the chairman of the texas racing commission, maybe the next roberto dehoyos who heads our economic development shop, and one of my favorites, the head of the texas alcoholic beverage commission, jose quervos. is that awesome?
that is the right job for that man. >> oh, perry looks more and more -- sounds more and more like that other texas governor, george w. bush. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. up next, your business. a netwo. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say.
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